Apr 12, 2018 FAQ for Samsung Phones. Find more about 'setting a music file as a ringtone for your Galaxy S7 (SM-G930W8)' with Samsung Support. Aug 23, 2007 Deutschland uber alles had been the national anthem in germany for years, even before the nazi rule. Why cant you sing deutschland uber alles in germany anymore? Third, in 1952 germany adopted the third stanza of the song as it's anthem as well as taking it's motto from the song. In 1991 it became the national anthem of a re-united Germany. Nov 08, 2014 Deutschland uber Alles Video with Third Reich footage. Read about Deutschland Uber Alles by National Anthem and see the artwork, lyrics and similar artists.
< Talk:Deutschlandlied
Download Deutschland Uber Alles Song For My Phone Youtube
The first two stanzas of the Deutschlandlied
The first two stanzas of the Deutschlandlied are actually not legally forbidden.But they are not the national anthem !!! (as national anthem they are forbidden !)see here:
Only the third stanza is the National Anthem!
People singing all stanzas of the Deutschlandlied as the national anthemare in Germany mostly considered as right wing extremists!
So the first 2 stanzas of the Deutschlandlied have nowadays nothing to do with the German national anthem.1945 The Allies forbade the whole Deutschlandlied
1951 The third stanza was allowed as National anthem again
1990 the highest German court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) declares the third stanza finally as legal!
with kind regardsbender
English names for the geography of Germany
The straits between Norway and Denmark that are approximately East-West are called 'Skagerrak' in English. Where the same ocean then bends south and follows the coast of Denmark, it is called 'Oresund'. I'm not aware of an English name for it once one leaves the Oresund, until one reached the Gulf of Riga to the east or the Aland Sea to the north between Sweden and Finland. -- Paul Drye
What do 'Memel' and 'Belt' refer to?
I don't know the English names for 'Memel' and 'Belt'... The 'Memel' is a river in the Baltic, 'Belt' is the German expression for the part of the North Sea between Germany and Sweden.[unsigned comment]
Maas to the memel=the meuse in holland to the memel near Kaliningrad, etsch to the belt=border of the austrio-italian alps to the former holstein border in denmark, which marked out all 40 german states, including austria/ancient german settlements of bohemia and movaria-before the slavs eventually took it over (modern day czechoslovakia) and all of the Imperial germany's borders 1871-1918. [unsigned comment]
Okay, from the above comments we have two alternate definitions of 'Belt'. (1) the Baltic Sea between Germany and Sweden; or (2) the former Holstein border, near Denmark. Geographically, this is more or less the same area. But if anyone has a definitive answer, please update the Belt page accordingly. Thanks. • Benc • 09:49, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Source of the music
The music was taken from the Kaiser quartet, 1797 by Hayden.-P von stasser
Song name: 'Deutschland Über Alles' vs. 'Das Lied der Deutschen'
Hmmm, without the music to go along with the lyrics, I may be mistaken, but isn't this song commonly referred to as 'Deutschland Uber Alles' in English? I've never heard the name 'Das Lied der Deutschen' before. Or are they different songs that just share those three words in their lyrics?
If it's the same song, with the name changed for obvious reasons post-WWII, that should probablybe mentioned in the history of the song. A redirect might be useful too -- certainly if someonehad asked me before reading this article what the German national anthem was I'd haveanswered 'Deutschland Uber Alles'; it'd have taken me approximately 47 billion more guesses tocome up with 'Das Lied der Deutschen' -- Paul Drye
Yes, I understand that. What I mean is 'At some point in the past was Das Lied der Deutschen entitled or popularly known as Deutschland Uber Alles, or are they two different songs?' If the former, in my opinion a note about the name change is necessary. As written, the article implies that the song was called Das Lied der Deutschen as soon as it stopped being a hymn to Emperor Franz. -- Paul Drye
Hm! I've learned something new today. Before this discussion I would have sworn the song was named after the first line of the original first stanza. If anyone else from the English-speaking world is reading along, is that just me, or is it a common misconception for English speakers? -- Paul Drye
Omission of the first verse: excessive political correctness
I think the omitted first verse of 'Das Lied der Deutschen' is one of the first victims of political correctness. 'Deutschland über Alles' quite clearly refers to love of country above all things, and not to any political or territorial aspirations. [unsigned comment]
The song is often called Deutschland ueber Alles, simply because those are the opening words of the first stanza. It is virtually unknown today that the expression 'über alles', or 'before all [others]' refers not to the conquest or enslavement of other countries or the establishment of German hegemony over other peoples, but rather to a call for all Germans to abandon their concept of being a subject or citizen of this or that principality or region (such as Bavaria or Prussia) and to realize the common bond they had with one another by simply being German. This concept was considered 'revolutionary' at the time the words were written in 1841, since loyalty to 'Germany' was considered by the princelings and kings of the disunited Reich (divided into 40-plus separate states) to be disloyalty to themselves. This 'All-German' idea was suspect because it was also associated with the rising middle classes and their suppressed Frankfurt assembly of 1848. [unsigned comment]
Some additional information to be included in the article
Some of this my be worth to be included in the article.
[unsigned comment]
Reasons for reversion (2 June 2004)
I've reverted the previous contribution since it adds some factually inaccurate statements. In particular, no nation called 'Austria-Hungary' existed in 1797; that was a later historical development. The revision also implied that Haydn was writing what he thought was a national anthem; this is also not correct, as the song was only made into an official anthem after Haydn's lifetime.The other change was the claim that Fallersleben wanted a united Germany to include Austria. I think it would be fine to include this (reverting my reversion), but only if the person who wrote this can say what his/her factual source is. Suitable sources might include a biography of Fallersleben, a collection of his letters, etc. Thanks, Opus33 19:00, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Haydn and Austria
'Haydn wrote it because he had been requested to provide a patriotic song for Austria, his native country. The words provided to Haydn were 'Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser' ('God preserve Franz the Emperor'), Franz being at the time the reigning Austrian emperor Francis II.' -- I changed this for two reasons:
In summary: The whole discussion about the tune being Austrian is pointless, because in 1797, Austria was a part of Germany; and while there was no Germany in 1841, Austria was still a member of the German Confederation at the time.--Chl 02:44, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Austria was a 'nation' long before that, if not politically, then definetely culturally. It just wasn't an empire until 1804. Just look at the Austria page and her history. It was sign of patriotism to Austria, as was common at the time due to the threat of Napoleon.. the page on 'Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser' mentions all this and more. Are you attempting to nullify the fact that this is an Austrian tune? It doesn't matter anyway because Austria introduced a different national anthem as she (a) didn't want an anthem which had been so extensively used by the Nazis and (b) (later on) to distinguish herself as an independant nation, separate from Germany.
Midi File
I live in germany and think, that you did a veeery good job on this article, espacially writing down _two_ possible interpretations of the first stanza's beginning. In fact, only a very small share of people would ever think the 'united germany' interpretation could be right, but in fact it is quite probably that it is. Thanks propaganda & WWII :-(
The only thing i would like to remark is, and i'll do that in the german version of this article, too, that the hymn is not quite good represented by .mid file, because there's too much drum etc. in it. It would be better if it sounded like one of the following .mid fileshttp://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutsch2.midhttp://www.spiegel.de/media/0,4906,45,00.mid
Surely it would not be illegal to use an ogg vorbis file? I would very much like to hear a good-quality version. Even if national anthems are copyrighted (which would be ridiculous), surely this constitutes fair use?
In need of attention – what?
This article claims to be in need of attention, and I am happy to provide some. What are perceived as the major problems? I compared to the German article, which is somewhat more polished, but the English 'version' has no major omissions or problems I can see.
Except maybe the following paragraph.
I am not a native English speaker, so the 'sinister intent' needs to be spelt out for me. Maybe for others as well. Would a native English speaker be able to distinguish 'Deutschland über Alles' ('Germany above all') from 'Deutschland überall' ('Germany everywhere')? Is that the implied sinister intent? Or is there another mistranslation that I am not getting? Does it have to do with the meaning of internet-speak 'uber'? (That wasn't known after WWII...)
The gist is that somebody needs to explain the possible (and ostensibly widespread) misunderstandings that this text can have in others. That would be very informative. Moreover, if there are references to the Allied propaganda that enforced such misunderstandings then this article would improve even more.
Apart from this issue, I think this article is pretty good and just needs some spit and polish. Arbor 07:11, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
To answer my own question, I found this paragraph in the French version of this article
This says that the Nazis (not the Allies) reinterpreted the first line as an appeal for global dominion. (Really? That seems mighty strange.) I mainly know about the early history of the Deutschlandlied, and not so much about its status during WWII, so I can't make that call. A reference would be a big help. Arbor 07:17, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
It is the official anthem??? /Changing the article name
The first paragraph states the third stanza text is the unofficial national anthem of Germany, but according the German wiki and other sources online the lyrics of the third stanza have been official since the 1990s. I changed the wording because of this. If anyone has any additional information in conflict with the German wiki please mention it here.
I also think the name of the article should be changed as soon as possible. The current name Das Lied der Deutschen is the original name but hardly in common use in Germany now. When using indigenous (non-English) names in the Wiki it is probably best to refer to the name used in the Wiki of the relevant language. The German-language Wiki article is titled 'Deutschlandlied' .... this is also used to refer to the song in at least 90 percent of all circumstances in Germany these days. I suggest a mixed article name, perhaps Das Lied der Deutschen/Deutschlandlied. Either way, equal status should be given to the more accurate/common name and that is the 'Deutschlandlied' since it has all but totally replaced 'Das Lied der Deutschen' in modern German.Harald 30 June 2005 22:36 (UTC)
EasyByte link
that easybyte link doesn't open for me, can anyone else try it too?
Edit war over translation
We have an edit war over the translation at hand. Please stop and meet at the talk page instead.
My 5 eurocent:
In short, I see little merit in the current translation and think Nightbeast's reversion was appropriate. But by all means let's talk about it. Arbor 10:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
Deutschland über alles
Until I just reverted it, the first line was changed to
Das Lied der Deutschen ('The Song of the Germans', also known as Das Deutschlandlied, 'The Song of Germany', or Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles, 'Germany, Germany, above all')...
Incorrect spelling notwithstanding, the addition is not without merit. It boils down to whether or not we should include titles that are in some sense wrong but wide-spread. Now, I don't know how many people actually refer to the Deutschlandlied as Deutschland, Deutschland über alles. I have the suspicion that very little written material does so. But still, it is a valid, and possibly wide-spread, misnomer. My immediate reason to remove the title, at least from the first sentence, is that it makes it factually incorrect. (In that the first stanza, which begins Deutschland..., is not the national anthem.) We could do something like this:
Das Lied der Deutschen ('The Song of the Germans', also known as Das Deutschlandlied, 'The Song of Germany', and whose first stanza begins Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, 'Germany, Germany, above all')...
or
Das Lied der Deutschen ('The Song of the Germans', also known as Das Deutschlandlied, 'The Song of Germany', sometimes known by the first line of the first stanza Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, 'Germany, Germany, above all')...
but now the first line is really clumsy. How about completely avoiding the bracketed part in the first sentence and write a second paragraph instead:
In Germany, the Song of the Germans is usually known as Das Deutschlandlied ('Song of Germany'). Outside of Germany, it is sometimes known by the first line of its first stanza, Deutschland, Deutschland über alles ('Germany above all'), but this stanza is not part of the national anthem of modern Germany.
I think this is informative, helpful, and targets a common misunderstanding. Arbor 09:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
'deutschland über alles' is the beginning of the first stanza, which is FORBIDDEN in germany. 'deutschland über alles' is NOT the title of the german national anthem
Above all
[Copied by User:Arbor from User:Friedolin's talk page. Arbor 18:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)]
Friedolin, could it be that you are mistranslating the English translation of 'über alles' yourself? 'Above all' does mean 'above all things'. The popular mistranslation you are attacking would be 'Germany, Germany everywhere' (from überall). Mind you, that mistranslation is inserted on the Deutschlandlied page often enough (only to be quickly reverted). But there is nothing wrong with 'above all'. Best, Arbor 21:27, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Friedolin, we seem to be talking past each other. Let me try to be more clear. The English phrase 'above all' means 'über Alles'. It does not mean 'über Alle'. (That would be 'above everyone'.) So there is nothing wrong with translating 'über Alles' to 'above all'. You are attacking a translation based on (what I believe) is a misunderstanding, and you are stipulating malicious intent in a previous editor who probably just had a different understanding of the subtleties of the English language than you and me. Another thing: you mustassume good faith in your fellow editors. Implying the opposite is one of the best ways of getting banned around here. Stop it now.
I propose that you begin on working your alternative translations into the article as soon as you can (instead of having an alternative translation as you have now—that is sure to get removed). Instead, why not insert a new paragraph called Common mistranslations after the translation, with the following effect:
Deutschland Uber Alles Meaning
The first line of the first stanza is easy to misunderstand for those who do not have German as a first language. 'Deutschland über alles' aims to express a [blabla, what you said above]. This is variously translated into English as 'Germany above all (things or goals)'. It does not mean 'Germany everywhere' (which would be the proper translation of 'Deutschland überall', nor 'Germany before all others' (which would be the proper translation of 'Deutschland über Alle'.
(Maybe you want to put in a historical perspective on this as well, about the Allies spreading this mistranslation with malicious intent. I just have never been able to find verification for this.) This is a lot shorter, and infinitely more informative than providing a different translation. Moreover (and most importantly for you and me) it points to a possible misunderstanding and eradicates it. Arbor 18:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
[end copy from talk page]
Arbor, your efforts to make the difficult understandable are to be commended. Your paragraph below the translation of the 'Deutschlandlied' goes a long way in clarifying the term 'über alles'. But you also took exception to my use of the word 'malicious'. I beg to differ, and so would you if you were German. It is nothing but maliciousness when a foreigner labels you a Nazi just because you are a German patriot. (I dare say that nine times out of ten the word Nazi is maliciously used when speaking of Germans, as it is further down below the translation of the Deutschlandlied.) It was Germans, not just Nazis who loved their National Anthem the way it was written. It was Germans who named their rivers Maas, Memel and Etsch. The Baltic Sea bordering on Germany was the Belt, just as Munich is München to them now. I know, when we say Munich and not München, it's because we have no 'Umlauts' in Englisch. Well, every one knows that Munich is in Bayern (Bavaria) and Bayern is in Deutschland (Germany), so no heartfeelings about that. But when you give foreign names to the names of rivers and a sea mentioned in the German National Anthem, the implication clearly is yeah, yeah, the greedy Krauts can't have enough. They want 'uber alles', they wanyt the whole world! The German National Anthem is as dear to Germans as our National Anthem is to us. We should respect that and if we translate their 'Lied' it should be as close to the spirit of the words as is possible. Friedolin 19:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Arbor, you say that 'The English phrase 'above all' means 'über Alles'. (and that)It does not mean 'über Alle'. (That would be 'above everyone'.)' No, no, literally translated 'above all' means 'über allen'. A more correct translation of 'über alles' and to convey what was meant, would be to say 'Germany comes before every thing' or 'Germany comes before any thing else'. For example, in English we are able to say 'Above all I want to be a pilot' or we can say the same thing with 'I want to be a pilot before I do anything else.' Above and before can be interchanged. In the case of the Deutschlandlied saying 'before' instead of 'above' would convey more correctly what the author had in mind and what Germans understand the meaning to be. Friedolin 01:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Arbor, to use a worn-out but true phrase once again, 'you are a scholar and a gentleman!' I like how you went about to settle the disagreement between us. Your last effort just about hits the nail on the head too: 'The German phrase 'Über alles' means 'above all' or 'before all', in the sense as 'more than anything else', putting the goal of a unified nation (al state) before all other political agendas.' This thought is repeated in 'Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit' a unified nation exercizing its RIGHT to live in freedom. 68.219.31.86 02:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Would'nt 'Germany, Germany above everything' a appropriate translation ? Haydn's String Quartet
I don't know what cataloging system you are using, but the string quartet with the aforementioned theme is normally referred to as opus 76, nbr. 3, which is correctly recorded as being in C major.
Also, it is a pretty standard convention to denote C major with an uppercase 'C' and c minor with a lowercase 'c'.
Heligoland VS Helgoland
I think it is worth a consideration what is more English. Helgoland is much more frequent than Heligoland in Google. Britannica refers to München as Munich, the English name. But Britannica's article on Heligoland is named Helgoland and only says also spelled Heligoland. Sciurinæ 13:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Formal legal grounds
The formal legal ground is an exchange of letters between the president and the chancellor, see [1] and [2].
This follows from the customary right of the head of state to set the symbols of the state. JensMueller 13:05, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Translate exchanges of letters
Is there a need to translate the exchanges of letters into English? I feel it would simplify the discussion ... JensMueller 10:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
POV all over the place
I'm not going to try to 'fix' this one, as I get the idea there would be a revert and mini-war, but I'll post a couple of problems I have with the criticism section. First:
'The song has frequently been criticised because of its generally nationalist theme'
This strikes me as almost mildly retarded. Nationalist themes in a national anthem? Are there national anthems with non-nationalist themes? You don't really hear many anthems like 'France is Tolerable' or 'America Can Be Agreeable with the Right Weather.' On to the even more idiotic slant:
'The enemies of Germany inferred a sinister intent of a German supremacy on a global level behind the exhortation to 'Deutschland über Alles in der Welt' ('Germany above all in the world'), and the words were so exploited in Allied propaganda. The song still rings with menace today in the ears of some anti-German people.'
'Enemies of Germany?' 'Anti-German people?' It sounds like a propaganda release. How about adding 'enemies of Socialism' and 'Jewish capitalist swine' while we're at it. Although, it seems like someone inserted anti-German POV into the pro-German (pro-Nazi?) POV with 'still rings with menace.' Roland Deschain 12:27, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Not only that:
The reason why German is no longer the primary language near the Memel is the massive forced displacement, deportation and genocide of eastern Germans immediatly following the Second World War. More than 16 million Germans were forcibly uprooted, and nearly 3 million perished during the harsh winter of 1945. Most of these figures represent women and children, as the majority of the male population was wasting away in Einsenhower's death camps.
Recht means Law
> NO: 'Recht' in this context means 'justice', see remarks below (mindbender) 80.140.4.22 17:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
In German, Recht means law. It means 'right' only when it is not capitalized. So 'Recht' is always law. --SergioCQH 17:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
It means right. Kingjeff 19:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
As a German native speaker, I can agree with Kingjeff. For example: I have the right to drink alcohol, would be correctly translated as: Ich habe das RECHT, Alkohol zu trinken.
Some comments on the translation of 'Recht' as 'right', which I personally find insufficient and potentially misleading! In the context used in the 'Deutschlandlied' 'Recht' clearly is in the context of there beeing an 'Rechtsstaat' or 'free government under the law' in the German State(s). My opinion therefore is that the translation 'justice' would be much better. Not only because of the multiple and not always completely identical uses of the words 'Recht' and 'right' in the German and English languages, but also because even a 'free government under the law' doesn't only provide its citizens with rights, but also many times also defines restrictions to protect others, as well as it might impose some duties on those citizens such as a military service and unfortunately taxes.mindbender 80.140.26.52 22:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
As nobody posted anything that disproves my above comments I have changed the translation of 'Recht' which were sometimes 'law' and sometimes 'right' to the more appropriate 'justice'. Also as an additional argument for this change I want to point out that the continuous text of this article repeatedly uses the word 'justice' while I couldn't find 'law' or 'recht'. (mindbender)80.140.4.22 17:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Nazi Rock Band
Not sure who added the second external link 'Das Lied der Deutschen. All three stanzas, beginning with the first. (MP3 sound file)'.
According to the ID 3 Tag it's from the Nazi Rock Band 'Zillertaler Türkenjäger'. Personally, I think it's pretty tasteless to link a Nazi Rock Band. If one feels the urge to link mp3s then I would suggest linking a Pre Hitler Version. schaecsn 2/9/07
Lyrics and translation - bug
Hi!'Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit' - recht in this sentence means law. I've corrected that.
Sorry 4 my bad English. ;) Marcin from Poland 83.22.62.75 21:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
'never formalised
'but the decision was never formalised.' - The article says the decision by (President) Heuss and (Chancellor) Adenauer was never formalised. I do not understand what this is supposed to mean. The decision by the Federal President IS formal. I'll change the article accordingly. 22:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
![]()
Motto
A quick internet search didn't get me any closer to finding a source for the purported 'motto' of Germany. As I've never heard about a 'motto' before, I'd like to ask here: Can anyone name a reference for the phrase having any official meaning, let alone being a 'motto' of Germany? To my knowledge, it's simply a well-known phrase (similar to Allons enfants de la patrie, God bless America, America the Beautiful, and other lines like that...), which is catchy, the beginning of the anthem and thus has been printed on that official stuff like coins etc. --Ibn Battuta 21:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Vandalism
Due to repeated vandalism, I removed that 'variant joking about Partitions of Germany' which hardly belongs in the article anyway.-- Mattheaddiscuß! O 17:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
@ 'Deutschlandlied: Geography': displayed map shows wrong 'modern' borders to the East
I don't know how to edit the graphic in the said entry. But the map displayed shows 'modern' time Germany to be reaching as far East as Warsaw!
Reply to the Above: the map does not show wrong borders - whoever put it there messed about with the resolution of it - the entire map is too wide.
Retrieved from 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Deutschlandlied/Archive_1&oldid=220387430'
Comments are closed.
|
AuthorWrite something about yourself. No need to be fancy, just an overview. Archives
December 2020
Categories |